Monica, what a great topic to discuss! The examples you’ve chosen are highly representative. In fact, when I learned about the Euros final I was in Oxford and I was discussing it with a British man and, in all honesty, I felt conflicted. I hadn’t watched any game at all and yet I felt a sense of pride for the Spanish team but also for England, who lost the last final they played and were presented with another opportunity to win. Funnily enough when they played against Italy my heart was full on with the Italian team and felt really glad they won 😅
But this example can be also seen in other areas: whenever a young Spanish scientist/business person/actor/artist,etc was on the news on merit of their work being recognised abroad, everyone felt proud of their achievements and resented they didn’t talk more positively of Spain, a country that either hadn’t supported their career or plainly ignored it. Funny how patriotism works sometimes. And then there’s the question of the symbols and the meaning we associate to them. I admire how the French, Italians and British relate to their national anthems and flags because in Spain it’s become a minefield and unfortunately at some point it’s as if they only represented a part of the population.
Thanks for your words, Cristina! I'm not sure I'd call patriotism what you describe. Maybe affinity towards something dear to you/nostalgia from the past? But then again, I'm still not sure what patriotism is.
The symbols! They could make up a whole new essay. :) And it's true, this goes beyond sports, to scientists and other fields.
I got carried away and threw in too many things! I guess the main idea was how people often feel proud about someone from their own country that they've never heard of before but get praised for their achievements and they feel validated to be from the same country, or city/town/village even when they personally, or the place, has never done anything to support said success.
Pedro Almodovar comes to mind. Everyone's proud he's from La Mancha and then resent him when he mentions that had he stayed there, he would have never become a filmmaker because the opportunity just didn't exist and someone like him usually had a hard life being the different one. He isn't criticising La Mancha, in fact he is very proud to be from the region, but it's as though his pointing out the lack of opportunity and how the land he was born in didn't had any part into helping him achieve his dream was a personal attack to the people who live there.
Anyway, if you write about symbols I'm sure that'll be another great conversation starter.
No worries, I got you. I was trying to convey something similar in my piece too, the ones who become famous seem to owe something to the people left behind from their community. It's a perplexing phenomenon for me too. And if you dare say something objective about your home community, you're somehow ungrateful or "you forgot where you left off from"...
A thought provoking piece. I’m a Brit and English so the football is a sore spot (although I don’t really like football I watched it of course and wanted us to win). Ironically the week before we were in Spain on holiday and watched the semi finals and cheered Spain on to win 🤷♀️
I am loyal to my country but patriotic is not a word I would use because it often feels wrapped up here in far right ideas and anti-immigrant hate which I do not want to be associated with.
Thank you for reading my essay, Jacqui! I see your point and I agree nowadays the word patriotic is being associated more and more with the far right, which muddies the waters even further...
A great piece Monica! In Germany, and likely also other countries where extreme right wing groups are on the rise, it’s interesting to see how they try to claim sports, literature, music and all that supports their mission. It’s frustrating because then it’s no longer about the cause, only about who’s allowed to claim it as “theirs”
This is an interesting perspective. As an American who has never been too into the sports world, I don’t get into the Olympics so much, but I do see this sort of rivalry and political identity manifested in other places like universities.
Group membership is so important to us, and I think it’s interesting that it develops in different ways for different people — but we’re always part of *some* group. We depend on membership for the fabric of our identity.
Oh yes, you're totally right about universities! In the US those organizations are almost as big sports teams, with players and mascots and slogans, besides the study part. There is a lot of identity politics and "patriotism" for them too. And I agree, we all need to belong to certain groups, it's ingrained in our biology. But the devil is in the details... 😊
As a Brit I feel obliged to follow the Six Nations Rugby every year, though I'm not much of a sports spectator. It is played between national teams from England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France and Italy, and is passionately followed by millions around the World.
As I live in France, was born in Wales, my father's family was from England and my mother's from Scotland, I can usually be assured to be a happy supporter of the winning side! 🙂
(Although I do suffer some mildly conflicted loyalties along the way!)
When it comes to the Olympics, I think this an example of Americans having an opportunity to express a kind of unifying patriotism that isn’t weighed down by partisanship. That’s actually something that I appreciate about the Olympics; it is apolitical, a chance for all nations to compete under the banner of fair competition. You can cheer for your nation without being jingoistic, and there are ample opportunities to root for other countries with whom you have some kind of connection. In my case, as a French speaker and lifelong Francophile, I will always cheer on the French tricolor at the Olympics.
Monica, what a great topic to discuss! The examples you’ve chosen are highly representative. In fact, when I learned about the Euros final I was in Oxford and I was discussing it with a British man and, in all honesty, I felt conflicted. I hadn’t watched any game at all and yet I felt a sense of pride for the Spanish team but also for England, who lost the last final they played and were presented with another opportunity to win. Funnily enough when they played against Italy my heart was full on with the Italian team and felt really glad they won 😅
But this example can be also seen in other areas: whenever a young Spanish scientist/business person/actor/artist,etc was on the news on merit of their work being recognised abroad, everyone felt proud of their achievements and resented they didn’t talk more positively of Spain, a country that either hadn’t supported their career or plainly ignored it. Funny how patriotism works sometimes. And then there’s the question of the symbols and the meaning we associate to them. I admire how the French, Italians and British relate to their national anthems and flags because in Spain it’s become a minefield and unfortunately at some point it’s as if they only represented a part of the population.
Thanks for your words, Cristina! I'm not sure I'd call patriotism what you describe. Maybe affinity towards something dear to you/nostalgia from the past? But then again, I'm still not sure what patriotism is.
The symbols! They could make up a whole new essay. :) And it's true, this goes beyond sports, to scientists and other fields.
I got carried away and threw in too many things! I guess the main idea was how people often feel proud about someone from their own country that they've never heard of before but get praised for their achievements and they feel validated to be from the same country, or city/town/village even when they personally, or the place, has never done anything to support said success.
Pedro Almodovar comes to mind. Everyone's proud he's from La Mancha and then resent him when he mentions that had he stayed there, he would have never become a filmmaker because the opportunity just didn't exist and someone like him usually had a hard life being the different one. He isn't criticising La Mancha, in fact he is very proud to be from the region, but it's as though his pointing out the lack of opportunity and how the land he was born in didn't had any part into helping him achieve his dream was a personal attack to the people who live there.
Anyway, if you write about symbols I'm sure that'll be another great conversation starter.
No worries, I got you. I was trying to convey something similar in my piece too, the ones who become famous seem to owe something to the people left behind from their community. It's a perplexing phenomenon for me too. And if you dare say something objective about your home community, you're somehow ungrateful or "you forgot where you left off from"...
Exactly, thank god you’re far more eloquent than me 😂
Hahah not at all!! 😉
I am SO glad you touched on Eurovision there! ;)
A thought provoking piece. I’m a Brit and English so the football is a sore spot (although I don’t really like football I watched it of course and wanted us to win). Ironically the week before we were in Spain on holiday and watched the semi finals and cheered Spain on to win 🤷♀️
I am loyal to my country but patriotic is not a word I would use because it often feels wrapped up here in far right ideas and anti-immigrant hate which I do not want to be associated with.
Great piece. Thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you for reading my essay, Jacqui! I see your point and I agree nowadays the word patriotic is being associated more and more with the far right, which muddies the waters even further...
Not in a sporting context but generally I think.
Yes, generally!
A great piece Monica! In Germany, and likely also other countries where extreme right wing groups are on the rise, it’s interesting to see how they try to claim sports, literature, music and all that supports their mission. It’s frustrating because then it’s no longer about the cause, only about who’s allowed to claim it as “theirs”
Thanks, Carmen! It's true, now being patriotic has been confiscated by the far right which adds another layer of complexity to the concept...
😭🫣
This is an interesting perspective. As an American who has never been too into the sports world, I don’t get into the Olympics so much, but I do see this sort of rivalry and political identity manifested in other places like universities.
Group membership is so important to us, and I think it’s interesting that it develops in different ways for different people — but we’re always part of *some* group. We depend on membership for the fabric of our identity.
Oh yes, you're totally right about universities! In the US those organizations are almost as big sports teams, with players and mascots and slogans, besides the study part. There is a lot of identity politics and "patriotism" for them too. And I agree, we all need to belong to certain groups, it's ingrained in our biology. But the devil is in the details... 😊
All because we evolved in tribal hunter/gatherer groups where loyalty to the tribe was so important for the survival of the tribe.
That is a great argument for it! 👍
As a Brit I feel obliged to follow the Six Nations Rugby every year, though I'm not much of a sports spectator. It is played between national teams from England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France and Italy, and is passionately followed by millions around the World.
As I live in France, was born in Wales, my father's family was from England and my mother's from Scotland, I can usually be assured to be a happy supporter of the winning side! 🙂
(Although I do suffer some mildly conflicted loyalties along the way!)
When it comes to the Olympics, I think this an example of Americans having an opportunity to express a kind of unifying patriotism that isn’t weighed down by partisanship. That’s actually something that I appreciate about the Olympics; it is apolitical, a chance for all nations to compete under the banner of fair competition. You can cheer for your nation without being jingoistic, and there are ample opportunities to root for other countries with whom you have some kind of connection. In my case, as a French speaker and lifelong Francophile, I will always cheer on the French tricolor at the Olympics.
That's a nice example, the Olympics have provided indeed a framework to cheer on your country, or others!, without bringing much politics into it. 👍